Curse

master chief matt · May 10, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

ok, its obvious that assasins suck at taking damage, no arguments here and i have an assasin with max armor. Aside from when i was on pre-island as a new assasin when factions first came out, and when im running with henchies to get rewards outside of towns, i barely die. I have a very specific build and weapons set that helps me own in any level, including gayla hatchery, unwaking waters, the last two missions, and even in vizunah square. the skills i have are all available at senji's corner, and my elite is available at vizunah square and dragons throat.

I use two combos of 3 moves each in my skill bar
combo#1:unsuspecting strike(+27dmg+30dmg if foe was above 90%hp), fox fangs(cannot be blocked or evaded +18dmg), death blossom(+35dmg and +35dmg to each adjacent enemy)
total dmg:+115 or +145 depending on if enemy was above or below 90%hp

combo#2: leaping mantis sting(+19dmg and criples foe for 13 seconds), jungle strike(+18dmg and +25dmg if foe is crippled), 9 tail strike(+35dmg and cannot be blocked or evaded)
total damage:+132dmg on top of whatever you're hits normaly would do

i use these combos alone, i dont try and mix them up when im in battle. they are set to do more dmg than any other combe that assasins have without useing the elite offhand mobeus strike.

for my other two skills i use recall, at the start of a mission/quest i cast it on a monk. this is an enchantment spell that lasts until i end it. when i end it i teleport back to the person i cast it on, the monk. that way when im running low on hp i can end it, and be right at the monk, which if its a good monk will be close enough to heal, but far away enough to not take damage. this way monks dont have to deal with rezing me every 10 seconds like most assasins(i also have a monk and i know what it is like to rez assasins constantly)

for my last skill i use shadow form. this skill is an elite and can be gotten in vizunah square from The Afflicted Soon Kim, or dragons throat from The Afflicted Huu. For 17 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 41 Health. when that spell is about to end i stop my enchantment spell and im teleported right to a monk, who can either heal me right away, or let me back up and get away from battle for a minute. that way the monks dont have to keep rezing me or healing me and wasting needed energy

My weapon set consists of 3 main weapons. I have a pair of ceremonial daggers for the 15^50 zealous mod and hp+30, they are max req9 dagger mast. second is shiros blades for the life stealing mod. third is one of my favorites against killing monks, lous karambits, +15%(stance) 20/20 armor pen, hp+30. This allows for me to do maximum damage with my weapons. these can be expensive to come by, so if you cannot get them a pair of max daggers with a 15^50 mod will work fine.

my attributes are set as so:
dagger mastery 12
deadly arts 1
shadow arts 12
critical strikes 10

I have a minor rune for each stat except critical strikes, cant find one and wont pay someone camping at rune trader 5k for one.

i also have a mask with +1dagger mast that stacks

armor:(everything is max al 70)
bladed seitung mask of minor dagger mastery
dagger mast +2

infiltrators seitung guise of major vigor
en+5
hp+41
armor +15vs peircing attacks

sabuterus setung gloves
reduces bleeding duration by 20%
armor+15vs slashing attacks

valkyries seitung leggings of minor deadly arts
deadly arts +1 non stacking
en regen +1
hp+10

valkyries seitung shoes of minor shadow arts
shadow arts +1 non stacking
en regen +1
hp+5

with any one of my daggers my energy is 25 with 4 pips regen, and hp is 566

i have tested this build many times, and monks have been surprised that they havent had to rez me. times when i die are when i cannot control it, like when the monk is not doing a good job staying out of mobs, and when i recall to them i am in the middle of another mob. other than that this build works spectacularly for me and my groups.

edit: each combo of mine costs 20 energy total, so even without a zealos weapon any assasin with even a plain whit weapon with no mods can accomplish either of thise combos.

Nitradamus · May 10, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Comon sense for many, and a great help for many.

Metanoia · May 10, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

This should probably be in the Assassin forum...

Anyway, as far as I am aware the cookie-cutter at the moment is...

Golden Phoenix Strike
Horns of the Ox
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Aura of Displacement
Shadow Refuge
Utility
Utility/Ressurection Signet

The only thing PvE Assassins 'need' to know of is Recall.

michaeldt · May 10, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Hmm...2 combos, 2 other skills, no res?

no wonder monks are hating assassins at the moment!!

personally, i like to choose two lead attacks, two dual attacks and one fast recharging off-hand attack. then i have room for a self heal, evasive skill, res sig.

Kwisatz_Haderach · May 10, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

you have your damage wrong

1st you forgot to add in basic damage from your daggers.

2nd dual attacks hit twice (why do you think their called dual attacks?0

so...

damage for your 1st combo is as follows

13(average daggers damage)*1.2(assumed custimuzation)=15.6
+27 damage from unsuspecting
+18 damage from fox
+35 damage from hit from death blossom
+35 damage from affect of death blossom
+35 damage from hit from death blossom
+35 damage fromaffect of death blossom

so the formula would be 4(16)+27+18+2(35+35)= 249 damage for the first combo's base damage a big increase from what you posted.

Now lets look at the second combo's damage:
16 base damage from appove
+19 damage from leaping mantis sting
+18 damage from jungle strike
+27 damage from jungle strike's affect
+35 damage from 9 tails strike
+35 damage from 9 tails strike

so the formula for it would be: 4(16)+19+18+27+2(35)=198

also a significant increase from your posted amount

well i hope that helps increase you builds popularity.

master chief matt · May 10, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

you have your damage wrong

1st you forgot to add in basic damage from your daggers.

2nd dual attacks hit twice (why do you think their called dual attacks?0

so...

damage for your 1st combo is as follows

13(average daggers damage)*1.2(assumed custimuzation)=15.6
+27 damage from unsuspecting
+18 damage from fox
+35 damage from hit from death blossom
+35 damage from affect of death blossom
+35 damage from hit from death blossom
+35 damage fromaffect of death blossom

so the formula would be 4(16)+27+18+2(35+35)= 249 damage for the first combo's base damage a big increase from what you posted.

Now lets look at the second combo's damage:
16 base damage from appove
+19 damage from leaping mantis sting
+18 damage from jungle strike
+27 damage from jungle strike's affect
+35 damage from 9 tails strike
+35 damage from 9 tails strike

so the formula for it would be: 4(16)+19+18+27+2(35)=198

also a significant increase from your posted amount

well i hope that helps increase you builds popularity.

actualy, my math is correct. if you read it, it says +dmg, so its the additional damage that the skills do. and if you added it up you would see that my total +dmg accounts for the dual strikes 2 attacks. this is a build for assasins to see how much extra damage they will do on top of what they are already doing with whatever dmg their daggers do. death blosson only does its bonus effect against surrounding enemies, so i dont count that into my total +dmg done bc it is not dmg done to one enemy, and it is a variable depending on how many enemies are in that group. though, if you are in a group and use that against low health enemies it may kill them, but again, that is a variable i cannot account for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeldt

Hmm...2 combos, 2 other skills, no res?

no wonder monks are hating assassins at the moment!!

personally, i like to choose two lead attacks, two dual attacks and one fast recharging off-hand attack. then i have room for a self heal, evasive skill, res sig.

if i go into a group with monks i shouldnt need to bring a rez spell. assasins are meant to be quick and do as much dmg as possible to a mob. with my recall/shadow form combo i am untouchable for 17 seconds, or 15 seconds in battle, giving myself 1 second to get into battle and leaving myself 1 second to get out. the attack part of my build isnt the most important, but if you look at all the possible combos, baring using mobeus strike elite offhand, these are the most effective and deadly assasin combos.

as for monks hating assasins, why would they hate us if we didnt bring a rez? it is the monks job to keep everyone in the party full of health and rez them when they die. it is not an assasins job to rez the party. if a party with two monks loses both its monks then the group was doomed to begin with. monks shouldnt be getting into battle. they should keep allies in their agro ring and enemies just outside of it.

Dr Strangelove · May 10, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

as for monks hating assasins, why would they hate us if we didnt bring a rez? it is the monks job to keep everyone in the party full of health and rez them when they die. it is not an assasins job to rez the party. if a party with two monks loses both its monks then the group was doomed to begin with. monks shouldnt be getting into battle. they should keep allies in their agro ring and enemies just outside of it.

*Vein in head starts throbbing* It is NOT solely the monks job to rez. In fact, it's more important for other classes to have a rez than a monk. Why you ask? If a party wipes, is that squishy monk who just spent himself trying to keep everyone alive going to be able to live for long? In almost every near-wipe situation you'll end up with a ranger or a warrior left (possibly an assassin now that they have those nifty teleport skills). It drives me insane when the wammo says... uh... no rez. It's your job, blast it. Give me rebirth on monk secondaries or give me death! (pun intended)

Xapti · May 10, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

You're not incincible with shadow form on, although it's pretty darn close. only thing that will hurt you is touch skills (notably necro and assassin touch skills), signets, traps, and spirits (not the attacks of them though).

PvE, if you're not a monk, or don't have good armor/defence, you don't want to be bringing res, as was mentioned. While monk isnt necessarily the only one who should res, the one who has highest armor, or something like monk secondary should bring res. Ranger monks and Warrior monks are best for this, since they can use rebirth from afar, or even restore life in combat without dying.

holden · May 10, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

as for monks hating assasins, why would they hate us if we didnt bring a rez? it is the monks job to keep everyone in the party full of health and rez them when they die. it is not an assasins job to rez the party. if a party with two monks loses both its monks then the group was doomed to begin with. monks shouldnt be getting into battle. they should keep allies in their agro ring and enemies just outside of it.

as a monk in pve i don't bring res. when would i use it? the best time would be after the fight is over but by then if you guys are dead then i am too most likely. you should bring res sig. when the guy next to you dies get him back up. otherwise the whole mission is all about you and all the damage you do. like the whole party needs to worry about keeping you alive just to win. and we know that's not reality. you need to keep your monks alive to win.

it's not the monk's job to res dead players. that's an ignorant thing to say. you should run a monk before saying that.

please don't tell me you've played monk, i dont need to hear that.

when you die it's because you aggroed too much or ventured too far away. sometimes you just get nailed and there are sure some bad monks in pve but most of the time if you pull the bad guys and stay by your monk you'll be just fine.

plastichead · May 10, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Well ur build probably works wonders witha full team of people, but if u usually end up traveling with henchies ur build would only get u so far. so teh build is more a recomendation for either pvp or full group questing without henchies. also not everyone can afford the daggers, yet i recently aquired some zealous kenshi daggers that i like. its about an average of +3 energy every 1.5 secs. but if u would so kindly post info on all the assassin elite caps that would be great. i've only found palmstrike and some non elite caps so far ( about 5 non elite caps) and i would love to know of the better elites. also i'ma huge fan of sharpen daggers, with +20% enchantments......

Shadow-Hunter · May 10, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Imo, the monk is the last one to bring rez on the team.. a monk cant really perform a Combat rez at it takes needed energy + time.. No healing from the monk in lets say 6 sec is alot ... And since most assas need to get back and regen sometimes then they are one of the first to rez.. i mean: in their regen time they aint really doing anything that important.. a Warrior who might have rebirth dont really want to rez anyone into the frontline.. So assas should bring rez..

~Shadow

Yukito Kunisaki · May 10, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

That's a damn good build ya got there...

You'll die first with your armor so not much reason for res sig...

Tele like sissy when low? I think so...

My question is, if you're wearing zealous daggers, does it work with only 2 pips of e. regen while fighting?

2 combos sounds great, especially when it can cut down on your downtime... However...

Without anti-x attack skills, I think your combos would only land on high armor ai enemies or idiots in pvp...

How would you deal with defenses?

skammich · May 10, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

this is exactly why i bring rebirth, i picked mo secondary so that if i do happen to die from my own negligence, i am worthwhile to bring back. there have been several times i have decided not to do a combo, in favor of a rebirth on another player in the party.

as for the build, i think it's well built. i personally use way of perfection along with +20% longer enchant daggers so that i always have that skill on, and spam the combo's until i am nearly out of energy, or taking damage. then use shadow refuge and regen my health and then back into battle because my skills and energy have regened by the time my health is back up.

I have been told by several parties that they were glad i was there to due the extra damage and knew how to play outside the Wammo assassin mentality.

Drizzt Dourden · May 10, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastichead

Well ur build probably works wonders witha full team of people, but if u usually end up traveling with henchies ur build would only get u so far. so teh build is more a recomendation for either pvp or full group questing without henchies. also not everyone can afford the daggers, yet i recently aquired some zealous kenshi daggers that i like. its about an average of +3 energy every 1.5 secs. but if u would so kindly post info on all the assassin elite caps that would be great. i've only found palmstrike and some non elite caps so far ( about 5 non elite caps) and i would love to know of the better elites. also i'ma huge fan of sharpen daggers, with +20% enchantments......

http://www.xennon.co.uk/eliteskills/

?

nice build! have to try it with my assa too...

Venus was her name · May 10, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

i actually find shadow form to be an awful skill, ok yeah its nice to be 75% invincible (various things bypass it) but its an incredibly reckless skill..that uses up the monks time + enrgy when its over.

since pretty much everything in factions uses degen shadow form is extra useless.

the best defence for an assasin is to understand your role...which is to let the warriors take aggro, then sneak round the back to kill casters (or keep them busy)

i've always said..if your getting killed as assasin..your killing too slowly

Fred Kiwi · May 10, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

mmm, shadow form + recall sounds niiiiiiice

shinja · May 10, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I cant imagine not bringing any form of rez no matter what class you are if you are playing with other people, this goes triple for monks.

holden · May 10, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by skammich

this is exactly why i bring rebirth, i picked mo secondary so that if i do happen to die from my own negligence, i am worthwhile to bring back.

that's a great way to put it.

Beat_Go_Stick · May 10, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

as a monk in pve i don't bring res. when would i use it? the best time would be after the fight is over but by then if you guys are dead then i am too most likely. you should bring res sig. when the guy next to you dies get him back up. otherwise the whole mission is all about you and all the damage you do. like the whole party needs to worry about keeping you alive just to win. and we know that's not reality. you need to keep your monks alive to win.

it's not the monk's job to res dead players. that's an ignorant thing to say. you should run a monk before saying that.

please don't tell me you've played monk, i dont need to hear that.

when you die it's because you aggroed too much or ventured too far away. sometimes you just get nailed and there are sure some bad monks in pve but most of the time if you pull the bad guys and stay by your monk you'll be just fine.

Wow, Holden. First of all, I will say that I think it's in the best interest of every party member to bring a res of some sort unless you are with a group who decides someone will not bring one. Second, though it is not what you might want to hear, I have and do play a monk. He was my first character at release and I still enjoy playing him.

Now, most of the time when people die in PvE, it really is their own damn fault. Unfortunately, my success in the mission or quest we are doing is tied to theirs and, therefor, anything I can do to aid the team is a good idea. There are a few reasons I never leave town in a PuG without Rebirth...

1. I am in the best position to notice when a battle is going badly. I can see my energy, guage how hard my team is getting hit, and know when survival is not an option. I know you are the same if you've been playing a Monk. When your team is going to die, you can usually tell with more than enough time to not only get away safely but also to have a little of your team either escape with you or cover you.

2. From the back, which is where you should be, you have the ability to leave the area without pulling the enemy back through your group. When it is decided that it's time to escape and res the group later, you are either already dead (in which case it doesn't matter what's on your bar) or most likely to be able to get away safely.

3. People in a PuG will often automatically risk their own lives to save yours because they assume you have a hard res....when I play any other class without rebirth, I will do this as well.

To say "you need to keep your monks alive to win" and then "it's not the monk's job to res dead players" after that makes no sense. It's not the monks job to res players during combat, but after the battle? You better believe it's the responsibility of any Monk or Monk secondary to raise the team!

What 8th skill could possibly be more important than a res in and PvE PuG? I've never found a build that needs one so badly as to make me forfeit my res.

master chief matt · May 10, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

That's a damn good build ya got there...

You'll die first with your armor so not much reason for res sig...

Tele like sissy when low? I think so...

My question is, if you're wearing zealous daggers, does it work with only 2 pips of e. regen while fighting?

2 combos sounds great, especially when it can cut down on your downtime... However...

Without anti-x attack skills, I think your combos would only land on high armor ai enemies or idiots in pvp...

How would you deal with defenses?

zealos daggers are great with this build, when i do death blossom i get 2 energy for each person near me, and again, i can switch between my other 2 weapons that arent zealous.

i dont use this build much in pvp, i dont really do pvp. as for high armor guys, they get owned from teh two combos, usualy about 75%hp loss on them from these combos

also, for the guy that said its too expensive for the daggers i have, i never said you needed my daggers for this build, i said thats what i use. the skills cost teh same to everyone and will still do teh same dmg, and you only need minor runes to get teh stats i have. assasins arent meant to be able to tank and kill multiple high-armor enemies, they are meant to supliment with loads of dmg and get out b4 they can be killed.

and what do you mean by anti-x attacks? i dont understand what that means, sry, im a noob to about half of gaming terms, dont really use them myself.